Nothing like a little...or in our case a lot, of adversity to smack you in the face...to make you realize what you want...and don't want. What you need....and what you can do without. It seems like one wall after the other has popped up and Ryan and I have hit the thing head on. I guess to some...that would seem like a bad thing...and well, going through it has not been the most fun....but I have learned a few things. In the midst of picking up the pieces after each crash....you start sifting through the rubble....and you decide what you need...and what you don't. Through all of this we have had to come face to face with our faults. This is the beginning of me sharing all of that with you.
As the title says....I don't want fair. If I wanted things to be completely fair in our relationship...I sure as heck would have never brought ttwd to Ryan. Think about it: He gets to make rules that I have to follow. In our house he gets the final word. If I do something...like say, get a speeding ticket...he has the right to spank me. On the flip side...if he gets a speeding ticket....he comes to me...admits what he did...apologizes...and yes feels bad about it...but that is the end of it. Does that seem fair? Probably not to a lot of people. But there is also this: He is shouldered with the responsibility of making some pretty important decisions for our family. He absolutely wants my opinion....he values it...but in the end...the decision...and any fallout...drops directly on his shoulders....not mine. Is that fair? Again, probably not to most....but I don't want fair.
I have been forced to face some pretty ugly truths about myself here lately. One being: I am not a fair fighter. Like I said in a previous post I have gotten my feelings hurt a lot lately. But if I am being honest...for the majority of our marriage my feelings have been a little on the hyper sensitive side in certain situations. For example....the other night Ryan was going to do homework after the little people went to bed. We don't get a whole lot of time together in peace...so these nights always suck. I know it has to be done, but that doesn't mean I have to like it ;) Anyway, after sitting at the computer for an hour and a half....he basically got nothing done. He was tired....he was puttering around on Facebook...and then he came to find me and told me he was ready for bed. I was hurt. Why? Well, in my mind (women feel free to back me up here!) I felt like he chose to putter around on the computer instead of spending time with me. So yes...I totally let that upset me. Did he apologize? Absolutely...and he admitted that he was wrong....and if I was a logical person...I would have accepted his apology...and we would have moved on.
Only, that didn't happen. I was hurt...I felt unimportant...and I let that make me angry...very angry. We went to bed that night on not the best of terms....I believe by morning a small iceberg began to form in the middle of our bed. His point in all of this was that there was no way he could have dealt with me that night....and I agree. When my hurt turns to anger....forgettaboutit....I am gone. The next morning we were distantly polite if that makes sense....and he went to work. That night...we ate dinner...watched a movie together...and I was hopeful that we would talk about things....but instead we went to bed.
Ryan is a non-confrontational person a lot of the time. This is one of those times....that is not a good thing. He was hoping that when he got home...things would be better....and we could just move on. I had softened a bit...but still....and this is what I am trying to get him to see....when fallout happens...it leaves a lot of junk between us. We both come out of our roles as HoH and submissive wife (for lack of better terms) and until that is restored...nothing is truly better. Does that make sense? He saw that we were talking...so to him...we were okay. I was thinking...okay...I am softening...I need you to take back your leadership here....I feel insecure....I need to know that we are okay. When that didn't happen....I got mad...again. (I know, I know...I am a complicated...and maddening creature!!)
We have been talking this out...well, honestly it feels like we have beaten a dead horse....but then again...nothing is going to get better if we don't hash this out. He feels like he made a mistake....and that he can't spank me for a mistake that he made. I can see that...to him it doesn't seem fair. I contend...that none of this has ever been fair....and we just cannot go there. I say..yes, he made a mistake...but he apologized...over and over again...which by the way...makes me crazy. I did not accept his apology...and I chose...I made the conscious choice to make things worse. In talking with a friend she said...it is not about him being wrong...it is about how you chose to fight about it...two wrongs don't make a right. YES! When she said that I was like...how can you see this...and he can't?? I don't want fair....fair does nothing for either one of us.
I guess what I am trying to say here is....I need to know that he is in charge ...that he has me. I don't feel good about myself when I go all wonky and super sensitive about something that he does. I want to be better about granting forgiveness....I honestly do. BUT I need to know...that when the kitty litter hits the fan...he is going to stand up for himself...and not allow things to decline...and stay that way. Yes, I am most certainly responsible for my words and my actions. We have chosen to live this lifestyle...and Lord, it has been a sticky...bumpy...confusing ride....but it is a choice we have both made. Given that, we have roles that we have to fulfill...whether we like it or not. It is not always going to be easy for me...I don't always get things the way that I want....I may not always agree with what he says....but this is not about fair. Likewise....he may have to be in his words "Captain Hardass" when he would rather not be....he may be forced to make a decision that he would rather not...but again...this is not about fair. If we are ever going to move forward...that word has to be thrown out of our marital dictionary.
Oh yes, yes, yes I so get what you're talking about but have never been able to word it that well, if at at to H.
ReplyDeleteI know why and how you wanted him to show that he had taken back leadership after apologising. It's not fair and it must be hard on the HoH. But it's hard in each role just in different ways.
When we first got married I remember saying I wanted everything 50:50. He said "no". We didn't have a TTWD marriage then but he knew it wouldn't be right and it wasn't what I wanted I later discovered, I need someone to lean on.
Keep talking, keep trying. I think you're making a lot of sense!
Hugs
J
Hi Janey :)
DeleteI am glad someone thinks I am making a lot of sense!!!! I may qupte you if needed this week ;)
50/50 never really works in my opinion for anyone....it seems to me it causes a lot of score keeping so to speak...and when that happens...no one wins!
Hugs...
~Lucy
seems like you worked it all out yourself!
ReplyDeleteyour blog is adorable!
I hope it is worked out...I guess time will tell!
DeleteThanks, I kinda like my little owl :)
I could have wrote this myself Lucy. We had a similar situation recently and it kind of spiraled because he didn't feel right punishing over my attitude because he had a role in starting it. But like I told him, regardless of who started it, me withdrawing behind hurt and anger is isn't healthy for us. If I'm upset, I need to talk to him and if I don't, then he needs to do something.
ReplyDeleteYes, yes....what you said Dana..."If I don't...then he needs to do something." That is exactly what I was trying to tell Ryan. Don't just let me keep pushing you away...or being mad! I am so glad someone gets this...it sounded like such a mess typing it out ;)
DeleteSo we've had a few instances where I've thought, or even asked, 'why didn't the lousy way I just acted bother him more?' 'Why didn't he *do* anything about it?' And the response is that he's not really sure, only that he knows when he feels disrespected and he knows when he doesn't and isn't it up to him to decide what to do about it, if anything, anyway? And, I don't always love that response, but I do think that his point is valid.
ReplyDeleteIs it possible that because he felt like he was in the wrong, that Ryan was more understanding of your behavior/response than he might have been otherwise? Whether it was a conscious decision in that moment or not, if he had communicated that, acknowledged it but chose not to address it, would you have felt differently about the situation overall? On the flip side, you obviously felt bad about your response...how would he have reacted if you'd simply gone to him and asked for his 'help' to get over those bad feelings?
I'm just asking because I sometimes have to ask myself similar questions. Sometimes I jump to conclusions or expect him to read my mind, or act like I can read his lol. Sometimes we just don't react the same way or have the same feelings about a particular situation..sometimes one person moves on from a situation quicker, and as long as that's being communicated, that's okay. For us, it's okay to accept it as his way of handling things at times..I NEED to accept that...or I need to respectfully ask for his help if I feel I need it in order to move on. What happens after that, if anything happens at all, is up to him. Maybe that's another way that this isn't fair, but like you said, this is not about fair;)
Hi Tess :)
DeleteWell, goodness....you bring up a lot of good stuff here.
Yes, sometimes I wonder why something doesn't bother him....and you are right....that should be up to him. I think what derails me...is that him not doing anything...reminds me of the way we used to fight...with him retreating...if that makes sense. I can't handle that. And in this instance....I knew that what I had done was wrong...and I wanted to hear that from him...or maybe I needed to hear that. I felt like he was just wanting it all to go away.
On the other hand...I DO need to be better about letting him make these decisions...after all that is his job...this is what ttwd looks like for us...or what we are striving for. I guess, like you suggested, a little confirmation on his part...that yes he saw it, but was not going to address it may have helped. Ack, I need to get better at this!!
And the asking for it...that blog is to come. That has never been easy for me....but after the firestorm of the last few months...it is a lot easier than sending us back there again.
Nope, I don't want fair...I just have to figure this stuff out. Thanks for giving me some things to ponder here...
~Lucy
Oh Lucy, EXACTLY! So well said. We have had a pattern that is slowly breaking, thank goodness. And it revolves around this very idea. My feelings get hurt because of an action I'm misinterpreting. I know that my reaction is an over reaction. He isn't saying he doesn't want to spend time with me. He's just taking some needed alone time. I know I need my space and time to recoup after a hectic week but somehow when he needs that time and space and I want together time it gets messy. The first few times this happened, after starting ttwd, it would take days before we'd talk about it. Hubby kept saying it was really hard for him to do anything about it because he felt bad that my mood was a result of his stepping back and taking the time he needed for himself. It's one of those things so hard to make sense out of. It always seems to end the same. That miserable distant politeness you mention until he realizes this isn't going to blow over on it's own. Somehow hearing that he wasn't saying he didn't care and that all the things my head was saying just weren't true, sink in a whole lot better while OTK. In fact when the pattern tried to show up this last weekend he must have been in the mind frame that fair wasn't an option. He tried to let me know that he understood my disappointment over the change in plans for Friday night. He even gave me the chance to change my bad attititude on Saturday morning. When I shot back with "I'm fine, it's my problem not yours," he realized this was was that same old pattern happening. His reply was that it was his problem because it was his responsiblity to help me understand that he does care and that he simply had to finish a task so he had the rest of the weekend free.
ReplyDeleteYou are so right. Taking "fair" out of the equation is absolutely necessary. If he had tried fair again, we would have had a very distant weekend. Turns out my respect for him grew immensely Saturday morning. Great post, Lucy!
Hi Clara :)
DeleteThat is so good that he saw the pattern...and was able to fix things before they got worse. Amazing how that works, isn't it? ;)
I have done the same thing...getting my feelings hurt over his time. We try to talk about what we have going on for the week....so I know ahead of time if something is planned. It kind of helps me not be so down about it when things aren't sprung on me.
I hate the distance that comes with fallout....I am hoping that I learn something from all of this....we will see :)
For once I am not going to even try to be helpful. I am the king of the 'attitude' offenders. We don't have rules such as 'speeding tickets' (they would have to catch me first!) but I am always getting spanked because of my attitude.
ReplyDeleteI don't even need the excuse of 'fair' or 'unfair'. As I've said before, my mouth runs away with me, and I don't engage brain before I speak. I also get fed up when Dan 'plays' on his computer for ages when we could be doing 'other things'!
There is no help for us Lucy. Yours is wooden and mine is leather, and they both hurt like hell.
Hugs
Ami
Hi Ami :)
DeleteWell I must confess I am not a huge speeder...that was the best example I could come up with. Ryan is the lead foot in our family, ahem. ;)
And don't you worry...you may be king of the attitude offenders....but I am pretty sure I am a distant cousin ;)
There is no help? Oh c'mon...surely we can think of a way out of this. And yes, Fluffy is NOT my friend!
Hugs...
~Lucy
Well not sure why exactly I am commenting as you KNOW all my dirty laundry...but here goes nothing anyway. What Ryan said or feels is exactly what Barney has said to me on numerous occasions. He 'wants' <- I know right- to spank me for the attitude, but feels if he is responsible for it it doesn't seem right.
ReplyDeleteWe have had many discussions, where I have explained 'baiting', ie. provoking a spouse for an excuse to spank, ( which well our men don't require) versus, my 'inappropriate' response to his accidental hurt.
That is really what it boils down to right? They do something they don't think will cause us hurt and we react in a way that we KNOW isn't helpful,( although sometimes we can't HELP it....insert ttwd)
C'mon Mount. Ryan...you have that beautiful paddle...spank that mouthy babe of yours ! LOL
Up next on Lucy's Lunacy....
Captain Hardass transforms Lethal Lightening Lips, into Loving Lucy!
Hi Wilma :)
DeleteDirty laundry...that reminds me...I should be doing something about that ;)
Mouthy babe?! WHO ME?? He didn't really need thaaaaat much prodding to get Fluffy out of hiding. But thanks sooo much for putting it out here. I owe you...no really....I.owe.you!
OH MY, I SO AGREE! Fair doesn't work. Nothing in life is fair, now in the world can we expect to make a marriage work on fair then? I heard a line once "He's not always fair, but he's always just." I think it was about God, not sure, but the line rings so true for husbands as well. The Duke and I have been talking a lot about this kind of thing lately, and am working on a post on it, I hope I can express myself as well as you have. :) Thank you so much for sharing. {{{HUGS}}}
ReplyDeleteHi Es May :)
DeleteFair certainly never worked before ttwd....why in the world would it work after? Before it just seemed to add to the score keeping issues. No one ever wins that way.
Keep talking....that is all that we can do!
Hugs...
~Lucy
That blasted "junk" that builds up when stuff happens and then doesn't get talked out causes us all sorts of problems around here. It turns me into a terror and then things start coming out sideways...which in the end will actually provoke MM to spank...but he is like Ryan. He has a very hard time dealing with the original stuff b/c it seems unfair to him. I'm with you, I don't care so much about fair. What I hate is how stuff billows into all new things and yet we don't resolve the old thing.
ReplyDeleteWell how is that for some run on sentences that don't help you one tiny bit?
I hope Captain Hardass read this and is working on being completely unfair...and in the doing making all of this seem much more fair to both of you.
Hi Susie :)
DeleteYes, yes...what you said. Not dealing with it...in turns causes things to come out "sideways" as you say...and then he is provoked into action. That is NOT what I want. I am hoping that Ryan can see now that we have to deal with the issues at hand...put those to bed....and move on.
I don't want fair....it just doesn't work!
Thanks Susie :D
Hey Lucy,
ReplyDeleteThis is a great post and very timely for me as we are currently going through a similar situation. Rick has a very hard time too if he has any 'culpability' in the issue. It may not seem fair, but like you, I don't want fair either. I can see though that it must be so hard for them in this situation.
I'm so sorry you went through this and hope that you are able to get some resolution and reconnect.
(((Hugs)))
Roz
Hi Roz :)
DeleteRyan has the hardest time dealing with me...if he made me upset. The turning point for him was when I sent him an article I found that was written from a man's point of view. Sometimes they just need to hear it from another guy. It is hard on them....I would have to imagine. But I guess we didn't sign up for this because we thought it would be easy.
Hugs...
~Lucy
Sorry I am so late with this...still trying to catch up from my absence. Life sure isn't fair and it is good that you recognize that you don't want fair and know that it isn't the best way for you and Ryan. It doesn't mean that occasionally inside we aren't stamping our feet and bemoaning the "unfairness" of it all, right? Please tell me I am not the only one that does this:)
ReplyDeleteLove, Bea